aTOM eGOYAN & hIS fILM
bY pAUL cHADERJIAN oct- 6 '97
vANCOUVER, bRITISH cOLUMBIA
"The Sweet Hereafter" is Canadian film maker Atom Egoyan's seventh film. It's based on the Russell Banks novel of the same name about how a small upstate New York town deals with the tragedy of a school bus accident which kills 14 of its children. The film is about to be released in the United States through Fine Line Films, and it premiered at the Vancouver International Film Festival last week after sweeping the Cannes Film Festival a few months back. At Cannes, the film won the International Critics Award, the Grand Jury Award, and the Ecumenical Council Award.
I had the chance to attend the premiere in Vancouver and talk to Egoyan about his latest film and his career. What follows is a transcript of the interview .
paul: HOW DID YOU COME ACROSS THE BOOK?
atom: ARSINEE .. MY WIFE... GAVE ME THE BOOK AS A GIFT. I READ IT... AND I WAS COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED. I THINK IT'S THE MOST REMARKABLE STORY.
IT'S A STORY ABOUT A COMMUNITY THAT SUSTAINS THE MOST UNIMAGINABLE HORROR... WHERE ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE TOWN ARE ON A SCHOOL BUS AND ONE DAY IT FALLS OVER A CLIFF AND CRASHES THROUGH THE ICE AND CHILDREN DISAPPEAR.
HOW THE TOWNSPEOPLE DEAL WITH THAT... ABOUT A LAWYER WHO COMES INTO THE TOWN AND TRIES TO GET EVERYONE INVOLVED IN A CLASS-SUIT LITIGATION . WANTING TO SUE WANTING TO GET COMPENSATION TRYING TO USE THE PEOPLES’ RAGE AND ANGER FOR HIS OWN AS WE FIND OUT HIS OWN MEANS HIS OWN END AND ABOUT ONE WOMAN WHO SURVIVES THE ACCIDENT AND HOW SHE… FOR HER OWN REASONS... TURNS THE ENTIRE CASE AROUND... AND WHEN I READ THAT… WHEN I READ WHAT THIS YOUNG WOMAN DOES .I WAS REALLY INSPIRED I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE STORY WITH A VERY STRONG MESSAGE AND IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT THIS MORAL UNIVERSE WHERE WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE WORSE THING HAPPENS QUESTIONS OF BLAME... QUESTIONS OF HOW YOU GET OUT OF IT... HOW DO FIND SOME SORT OF A DIRECTION.
paul: THE HEALING PROCESS.
atom: WHAT IS THE HEALING PROCESS. HOW CAN YOU HEAL YOU KNOW . AND THE WHOLE NOTION OF WHAT DO YOU NEED TO HEAL AND THE CONTRAST BETWEEN HOW WE HEAL COMMUNALLY AND HOW WE HEAL PRIVATELY
paul: THIS AN ISSUE THAT YOU'VE DEALT WITH BEING WITH ARMENIAN DESCENT.
atom: I THINK IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE TO ANY ARMENIAN I THINK THAT WE'RE ALL... AS LONG AS THIS WOUND IN OUR PSYCHE HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED... AS LONG AS WE'VE NEVER REALLY HAD AN APOLOGY AS LONG AS - I MEAN... THIS
ISSUE IS STILL SO ALIVE. I WAS JUST READING PETER BALAKIAN'S "BLACK DOG OF FATE." IT WAS - IT'S SO EXTRAORDINARY. WE'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE CENTURY WHO'VE HAD THIS SORT OF INCREDIBLE VIOLENCE PERPETRATED AGAINST US AND WHERE IT HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED BY THE PERPETRATORS.
THERE HASN'T BEEN AN APOLOGY - AS A MATTER OF FACT - IT'S ALWAYS BECOME PART OF OUR PSYCHE THAT WE HAVE TO QUESTION WHAT IS IT THAT WE HAVE DONE TO DESERVE SUCH A FATE. AND HOW DO WE EMERGE FROM THAT... AND SO THESE ARE ISSUES WITHIN US. AND IN FACT... MAYBE THAT'S FORMED MY EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE BOOK.
IT'S FUNNY.. WHEN WE SHOWED THE FILM AT CANNES... AN ARMENIAN JOURNALIST CAME UP TO ME AND SAID- "WELL, YOU'VE MADE A FILM ABOUT THE GENOCIDE." AND I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO ACCEPT THAT... AND YET WHEN I THINK ABOUT.. MAYBE THAT'S WHY I WAS ATTRACTED TO THE STORY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN NO ONE ELSE CAN REALLY HELP YOU. I MEAN.. AS ARMENIANS WE'RE ALWAYS WAITING FOR VALIDATION FROM OTHER POWERS WE WANT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TO RECOGNIZE US WE WANT ALL THE GOVERNMENTS OF OUR VARIOUS HOST COUNTRIES TO RECOGNIZE US. WE WANT THE TURKS CERTAINLY TO RECOGNIZE US... BUT ULTIMATELY WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THAT AS EASILY AS WE THOUGHT. HOPEFULLY WE STILL WILL... BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE HAVE TO FIND TO FIND OUR MEANS OF SURVIVAL.
paul. WHAT DOES NICOLE DO WHICH CAN BE AN EXAMPLE FOR ARMENIANS.
atom. NICOLE - BASICALLY FINDS HER OWN TRUTH SHE'S GIVEN THIS PROCESS OF A LEGAL SYSTEM AND SHE'S ALLOWED TO TELL THE TRUTH SHE'S ALLOWED TO GIVE A DEPOSITION BUT WHAT SHE SAYS IS NOT WHAT ANYONE EXPECTS... AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S VERY SUBVERSIVE WHAT SHE DOES. IT GIVES HER DIGNITY.. AND I'D HAVE TO SAY - I DON'T WANT THESE PARALLELS TO BE DRAWN CLOSELY. THIS WAS NOT WHY I MADE THE FILM THIS WAS SOMEBODY WHO WAS WATCHING IT AND THAT WAS THEIR INTERPRETATION - BUT THERE'S SOMETHING PROVOCATIVE ABOUT THAT I THINK THAT - AS AN ARMENIAN FILM MAKER I'M ALWAYS ASKED WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE THE FILM ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. I MEAN. I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL EVER BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT FILM DIRECTLY. I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT AFTER THIS FILM WAS FINISHED... I REREAD 40 DAYS OF MUSA DAGH AND I THOUGHT... CAN I MAKE THIS STORY. IN A WAY... IT'S NOT MY TYPE OF FILM. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BOOK. IT WAS GREAT TO REREAD IT. I THINK FRANZ WOHRFEL .. I DON'T KNOW HOW HE DID THE RESEARCH FOR THIS STORY. WHAT HE UNDERSTANDS ABOUT ARMENIAN COMMUNITY LIFE AT THAT TIME IS EXTRAORDINARY.
paul THIS MOVIE IS A DEPARTURE FOR YOU - YOU'VE MADE MOVIES ABOUT THE INTERESTING PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY... NOW YOU'VE GOT A MOVIE ABOUT MAINSTREAM AMERICA.. MIDDLE AMERICA HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT MOVE.
atom. I MADE IT BECAUSE I REALLY ADMIRED THE BOOK... AND I ALSO KNEW I HAD TO CHALLENGE MYSELF... AND I HAD TO BE TRUE TO THE SPIRIT OF THE BOOK. IN ALL MY OTHER FILMS.. IN ALL MY OTHER FILMS.. THE CHARACTERS ARE SEARCHING FOR THEMSELVES... SO THEY'RE NOT REALLY INVITING ANY SORT OF AN IDENTIFICATION ON THE PART OF THE VIEWER YOU DON'T WATCH THE CHARACTERS IN MY OTHER FILM AND THINK I CAN UNDERSTAND OR I CAN RELATE TO THIS PERSON. BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS OFTEN SO EXCESSIVE... SO UNUSUAL.. THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO RELATE BUT IN THIS FILM AND IN THIS COMMUNITY... I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE VERY IDENTIFIABLE. AND I HAD TO RESPECT THAT... I HAD TO MAKE THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTANDABLE TO THE VIEWER.. BECAUSE THE PASSAGE THEY GO THROUGH. THE JOURNEY THEY GO THROUGH IS QUITE EXTRAORDINARY... AND SO IT WASN'T. I HAD TO CHANGE MY FOCUS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING I WAS PREPARED TO DO. I THINK YOU ALWAYS WANT TO SURPRISE YOURSELF... YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE YOURSELF... AND IT'S PART OF ONE'S GROWTH AS AN ARTIST.
pail: WOULD YOU SAY YOUR FIRST FIVE- SIX FILMS WERE A SEARCH FOR IDENTITY FOR YOURSELF.
atom. OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY - THE CHARACTERS IN THOSE FILMS ARE LOOKING FOR WHO THEY ARE - AND THAT'S WHY SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND THEM DIFFICULT FILMS TO WATCH BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT IDENTIFIABLE. YOU JUST CAN'T RELAX WITH THESE PEOPLE. YOU CAN'T JUST FOLLOW THEIR STORY. YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY INVOLVED. YOU HAVE TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOURSELF... AND THEY'RE PAINFUL QUESTIONS. SO THEY'RE CHALLENGING FILMS- THEY CERTAINLY HAVE GIVEN ME A REPUTATION. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT RELATE TO THEM AND ESPECIALLY.... I THINK WITHIN THE COMMUNITY - EVERYONE HAS A FANTASY ABOUT THE TYPES OF FILMS THAT WE WANT SEEN AND I THINK WE ALL HAVE A FANTASY... AS ARMENIANS... THAT ALL IT TAKES TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT THE GENOCIDE AND THAT'LL SOMEHOW CREATE CLOSURE... BUT IT DOESN'T. IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE AND I THINK WE SHOULD STOP FOOLING OURSELVES ABOUT THAT.
paul: BACK TO YOUR CAREER OBVIOUSLY THIS FILM IS MORE MAINSTREAM THAN EXOTICA WAS THIS A NATURAL PROGRESSION FOR YOU FROM ART FILMS TO FILMS WITH MORE APPEAL?
atom IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE BUDGET THE BUDGET OF THIS FILM IS A HIGHER ONE... AND YOU CAN'T MAKE A FILM WITH A HIGHER BUDGET AND THINK THAT... WHEN YOU RAISE MORE MONEY YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO THE PEOPLE WHO1VE GIVEN YOU THAT MONEY. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO REPAY THEM ON THEIR INVESTMENT. SO THE FILM HAS TO BE MORE MAINSTREAM SO THAT IT CAN JUSTIFY ITSELF FINANCIALLY. IT'S A BUSINESS AS WELL. IT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT THING ABOUT FILM MAKING... IT'S NOT JUST AN ART FORM... IT'S ALSO A BUSINESS. IT HAS TO MAKE SENSE AS A BUSINESS.
paul: WHEN YOU READ THE HEADLINES ASKING IF ATOM HAS GONE HOLLYWOOD. HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
atom: I REACT TO THAT BY UNDERSTANDING THE MYTH WE HAVE ABOUT HOLLYWOOD. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND HOLLYWOOD LIKE THE BACK OF MY HAND AFTER EXOTICA. I WAS OFFERED TO DO A FILM WITH WARNER BROTHERS... AND I SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME THERE AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE ADVANTAGES OF THE SYSTEM ARE... BUT ALSO THE DISADVANTAGES. WHEN I MAKE MY FILMS. I HAVE COMPLETE INDEPENDENCE... COMPLETE CONTROL. NOBODY TELLS ME HOW TO MAKE THE FILMS NOBODY TELLS ME WHAT I SHOULD BE DOING AND THE FILMS THAT I MAKE ARE MINE. WHEN YOU MAKE A FILM WITHIN THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO COMPROMISE.
paul: ARE YOU READY TO COMPROMISE WITH ICON PICTURES (mel gibson's production company).
atom: I DON'T THINK I NEED TO COMPROMISE MAYBE I'M FOOLING MYSELF. BUT THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE OFFER IS THEY'RE ALLOWING ME TO DO THE ADAPTATION. I GET TO WRITE IT. I GET TO COMMUNICATE IN THE SCRIPT WHAT I'M GOING TO DO. AND EVEN THERE... I'M GOING TO BE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE. I'M GOING TO SAY... LOOK... IF WE MAKE THE FILM FOR LESS MONEY... CAN I HAVE MORE CONTROL? AND I HOPE THEY'LL BE RESPONSIVE TO THAT THEY'RE GREAT PEOPLE I’VE WORKED WITH THEM BEFORE. AND THEY'RE COMMITTED TO A CERTAIN TYPE OF FILM MAKING... AND I THINK THEY'RE REALISTIC I MEAN... IF YOU MAKE A FILM FOR 30 MILLION DOLLARS... YOU JUST CAN'T DO YOUR OWN THING IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. I THINK YOU'RE BEING VERY IRRESPONSIBLE IF YOU DO THAT IF YOU MAKE A FILM FOR 30 MILLION DOLLARS YOU'LL GET TO HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT MOTIVATES ME. WHAT MOTIVATES ME.. MY MOTIVATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO USE FILM MAKING AS A FORM OF EXPRESSION AND SO I'M JUST AS PROUD OF A FILM LIKE CALENDAR WHICH WE SHOT IN ARMENIA FOR A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS AS I AM WITH THE SWEET HEREAFTER WHICH WE SHOT FOR FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE.. IT'S ALWAYS FOR ME.. I HAVE TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THE TALENT I'VE BEEN GIVEN. AND I CAN'T ABUSE THAT.
paul: WHAT INTERESTED YOU IN FELICIA'S JOURNEY (the film for Icon)
atom. FELICIA'S JOURNEY IS ABOUT TERRITORY AND PEOPLE CROSSING TERRITORY. AND IT'S ALSO AN EXAMINATION OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ENGLAND AND IRELAND IT'S A VERY INTERESTING PSYCHOLOGICAL THRILLER AND I’VE ALWAYS BEEN ATTRACTED TO THE THRILLER FORM. I THINK ONE OF MY FAVORITE FILMS OF ALL TIME IS ROSEMARY'S BABY IF I CAN DO SOMETHING WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT HAS THAT TYPE OF MOOD AND PROVOKES THOSE TYPES OF QUESTIONS.. THEN I'D BE VERY HAPPY.
paul: LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL LIFE IN CALENDAR YOU'VE PERFECTLY EXEMPLIFIED THE THREE MODERN IDENTITIES OF ARMENIANS... THOSE FROM THE HOMELAND.. THE MIDDLE-EASTERN ARMENIAN . AND THE ARMENIANS OF THE WEST... THE AMERICAN-ARMENIANS.
atom: YEAH.
paul: ARSINEE - YOUR WIFE - THE WOMAN YOU CALL YOUR MUSE - IS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. YOU ARE CANADIAN WHEN TWO OF THESE ARMENIAN IDENTITIES CREATE A NEW ARMENIAN - YOUR SON ARSHILLE - WHO WILL THIS FUTURE ARMENIAN TURN OUT TO BE?
atom: THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NO, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THE THING ABOUT CHILDREN IS THAT YOU CANNOT PREDICT.. YOU KNOW. I THINK THE WORSE THING YOU CAN DO TO A CHILD IS TO IMPOSE THINGS ON THEM. PARENTING IS THIS BALANCE BETWEEN HAVING YOUR VALUE SYSTEM WHICH YOU CANNOT HELP BUT HAVE.. BUT ALSO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHARACTER OF THAT CHILD IS ABOUT. SO... HE'S GOING TO ARMENIAN SCHOOL. THAT SEEMS I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG HE'LL BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THAT BECAUSE IT IS FORCED IN OUR CULTURE... IT IS. AND I UNDERSTAND THIS.. MY MOTHER TONGUE IS ARMENIAN BUT I WENT INTO A TOWN IN CANADA WHERE WE WERE THE ONLY ARMENIAN FAMILY. I HAD TO ASSIMILATE. I HAD NO CHOICE. AND IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT OUR CULTURE IS THAT WE HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY OPEN TO ADAPTATION WE HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THAT. WE ARE INHERENTLY PEOPLE WHO HAD HAD TO MAKE CERTAIN ACCOMMODATIONS AND YET PRESERVE VERY FIERCELY THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE MOST VALUABLE TO US. ARSINEE AND I ARE VERY STRONG ARMENIANS AND THAT WILL ENDURE IN ARSHILLE. IN WHAT FORM . I DON'T KNOW I REALLY DON'T. I CAN'T PREDICT THAT. I THINK IT PUTS PRESSURE ON HIM BECAUSE WE ARE PUBLIC PEOPLE. AND I DON'T WANT HIM FEELING THE PRESSURE OF THAT.
paul: THE NAME YOU GAVE HIM... TELL ME WHY YOU NAMED HIM ARSHILLE.
atom ARSHILLE IT'S A HUGE LEGACY. ARSHILLE IS A HUGE LEGACY WE MADE A SHORT FILM ABOUT THAT THAT FILM IS CALLED "A PORTRAIT OF ARSHILLE." AND IT'S . I'M EXPLAINING TO HIM IN ENGLISH WHY WE CHOSE TO GIVE HIM THAT NAME AND ARSINEE IS SAYING IT IN ARMENIAN. IT'S A HAUNTING LITTLE FILM. IT'S FOUR MINUTES LONG WE MADE IT FOR BRITISH BROADCASTING. AND IT'S VERY VERY OPEN. VERY HONEST IT’S ALSO TALKING ABOUT ARSHILLE GORKYS PAITING “A PORTRAIT OF AN ARTIST AND HIS MOTHER." AND IT'S PROBABLY THE MOST COMPLEX LITTLE FOUR MINUTE FILM ANYONE COULD SEE. I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW IT TO YOU
paul WE CAN INCORPORATE IT IN THIS PIECE.. IF YOU'D LIKE.
atom SURE.
paul. OUR FIFTEEN MINUTES ARE UP. ONE FINAL QUESTION. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO YOUNG PEOPLE ... YOUNG ARTISTS WHO'RE TRYING TO FIND THEIR VOICE LIKE YOU FOUND YOURS.
atom: BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR YOU. EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO CREATE THOSE PEOPLE IN YOUR IMAGINATION. YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY NOBODY CAN WORK IN A VACUUM AND IF THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THERE YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE THEM . AND THAT'S THE STRONGEST ADVICE I CAN GIVE BECAUSE IF YOU THINK YOU'RE WRITING.. EXPRESSING THINGS FOR YOURSELF IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SUSTAIN THE ENERGY AND DRIVE BUT IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND YOU'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THOSE PEOPLE AROUND YOU THAT'S GREAT BUT IF YOU'RE NOT.. YOU HAVE TO KEEP IMAGINING THEY ARE BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THEY WILL. EVENTUALLY YOU WILL FIND THOSE PEOPLE. IT MAY TAKE A LOT OF WORK AND A LOT OF PATIENCE.. BUT IF YOUR VOICE IS CLEAR.. AND IF IT'S PASSIONATE THEN THE AUDIENCE WILL BE FOUND.
paul: ATOM... THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME... AND YOUR THOUGHTS.
vANCOUVER, bRITISH cOLUMBIA
"The Sweet Hereafter" is Canadian film maker Atom Egoyan's seventh film. It's based on the Russell Banks novel of the same name about how a small upstate New York town deals with the tragedy of a school bus accident which kills 14 of its children. The film is about to be released in the United States through Fine Line Films, and it premiered at the Vancouver International Film Festival last week after sweeping the Cannes Film Festival a few months back. At Cannes, the film won the International Critics Award, the Grand Jury Award, and the Ecumenical Council Award.
I had the chance to attend the premiere in Vancouver and talk to Egoyan about his latest film and his career. What follows is a transcript of the interview .
paul: HOW DID YOU COME ACROSS THE BOOK?
atom: ARSINEE .. MY WIFE... GAVE ME THE BOOK AS A GIFT. I READ IT... AND I WAS COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED. I THINK IT'S THE MOST REMARKABLE STORY.
IT'S A STORY ABOUT A COMMUNITY THAT SUSTAINS THE MOST UNIMAGINABLE HORROR... WHERE ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE TOWN ARE ON A SCHOOL BUS AND ONE DAY IT FALLS OVER A CLIFF AND CRASHES THROUGH THE ICE AND CHILDREN DISAPPEAR.
HOW THE TOWNSPEOPLE DEAL WITH THAT... ABOUT A LAWYER WHO COMES INTO THE TOWN AND TRIES TO GET EVERYONE INVOLVED IN A CLASS-SUIT LITIGATION . WANTING TO SUE WANTING TO GET COMPENSATION TRYING TO USE THE PEOPLES’ RAGE AND ANGER FOR HIS OWN AS WE FIND OUT HIS OWN MEANS HIS OWN END AND ABOUT ONE WOMAN WHO SURVIVES THE ACCIDENT AND HOW SHE… FOR HER OWN REASONS... TURNS THE ENTIRE CASE AROUND... AND WHEN I READ THAT… WHEN I READ WHAT THIS YOUNG WOMAN DOES .I WAS REALLY INSPIRED I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE STORY WITH A VERY STRONG MESSAGE AND IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT THIS MORAL UNIVERSE WHERE WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE WORSE THING HAPPENS QUESTIONS OF BLAME... QUESTIONS OF HOW YOU GET OUT OF IT... HOW DO FIND SOME SORT OF A DIRECTION.
paul: THE HEALING PROCESS.
atom: WHAT IS THE HEALING PROCESS. HOW CAN YOU HEAL YOU KNOW . AND THE WHOLE NOTION OF WHAT DO YOU NEED TO HEAL AND THE CONTRAST BETWEEN HOW WE HEAL COMMUNALLY AND HOW WE HEAL PRIVATELY
paul: THIS AN ISSUE THAT YOU'VE DEALT WITH BEING WITH ARMENIAN DESCENT.
atom: I THINK IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE TO ANY ARMENIAN I THINK THAT WE'RE ALL... AS LONG AS THIS WOUND IN OUR PSYCHE HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED... AS LONG AS WE'VE NEVER REALLY HAD AN APOLOGY AS LONG AS - I MEAN... THIS
ISSUE IS STILL SO ALIVE. I WAS JUST READING PETER BALAKIAN'S "BLACK DOG OF FATE." IT WAS - IT'S SO EXTRAORDINARY. WE'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE CENTURY WHO'VE HAD THIS SORT OF INCREDIBLE VIOLENCE PERPETRATED AGAINST US AND WHERE IT HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED BY THE PERPETRATORS.
THERE HASN'T BEEN AN APOLOGY - AS A MATTER OF FACT - IT'S ALWAYS BECOME PART OF OUR PSYCHE THAT WE HAVE TO QUESTION WHAT IS IT THAT WE HAVE DONE TO DESERVE SUCH A FATE. AND HOW DO WE EMERGE FROM THAT... AND SO THESE ARE ISSUES WITHIN US. AND IN FACT... MAYBE THAT'S FORMED MY EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE BOOK.
IT'S FUNNY.. WHEN WE SHOWED THE FILM AT CANNES... AN ARMENIAN JOURNALIST CAME UP TO ME AND SAID- "WELL, YOU'VE MADE A FILM ABOUT THE GENOCIDE." AND I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO ACCEPT THAT... AND YET WHEN I THINK ABOUT.. MAYBE THAT'S WHY I WAS ATTRACTED TO THE STORY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN NO ONE ELSE CAN REALLY HELP YOU. I MEAN.. AS ARMENIANS WE'RE ALWAYS WAITING FOR VALIDATION FROM OTHER POWERS WE WANT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TO RECOGNIZE US WE WANT ALL THE GOVERNMENTS OF OUR VARIOUS HOST COUNTRIES TO RECOGNIZE US. WE WANT THE TURKS CERTAINLY TO RECOGNIZE US... BUT ULTIMATELY WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THAT AS EASILY AS WE THOUGHT. HOPEFULLY WE STILL WILL... BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE HAVE TO FIND TO FIND OUR MEANS OF SURVIVAL.
paul. WHAT DOES NICOLE DO WHICH CAN BE AN EXAMPLE FOR ARMENIANS.
atom. NICOLE - BASICALLY FINDS HER OWN TRUTH SHE'S GIVEN THIS PROCESS OF A LEGAL SYSTEM AND SHE'S ALLOWED TO TELL THE TRUTH SHE'S ALLOWED TO GIVE A DEPOSITION BUT WHAT SHE SAYS IS NOT WHAT ANYONE EXPECTS... AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S VERY SUBVERSIVE WHAT SHE DOES. IT GIVES HER DIGNITY.. AND I'D HAVE TO SAY - I DON'T WANT THESE PARALLELS TO BE DRAWN CLOSELY. THIS WAS NOT WHY I MADE THE FILM THIS WAS SOMEBODY WHO WAS WATCHING IT AND THAT WAS THEIR INTERPRETATION - BUT THERE'S SOMETHING PROVOCATIVE ABOUT THAT I THINK THAT - AS AN ARMENIAN FILM MAKER I'M ALWAYS ASKED WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE THE FILM ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. I MEAN. I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL EVER BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT FILM DIRECTLY. I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT AFTER THIS FILM WAS FINISHED... I REREAD 40 DAYS OF MUSA DAGH AND I THOUGHT... CAN I MAKE THIS STORY. IN A WAY... IT'S NOT MY TYPE OF FILM. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BOOK. IT WAS GREAT TO REREAD IT. I THINK FRANZ WOHRFEL .. I DON'T KNOW HOW HE DID THE RESEARCH FOR THIS STORY. WHAT HE UNDERSTANDS ABOUT ARMENIAN COMMUNITY LIFE AT THAT TIME IS EXTRAORDINARY.
paul THIS MOVIE IS A DEPARTURE FOR YOU - YOU'VE MADE MOVIES ABOUT THE INTERESTING PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY... NOW YOU'VE GOT A MOVIE ABOUT MAINSTREAM AMERICA.. MIDDLE AMERICA HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT MOVE.
atom. I MADE IT BECAUSE I REALLY ADMIRED THE BOOK... AND I ALSO KNEW I HAD TO CHALLENGE MYSELF... AND I HAD TO BE TRUE TO THE SPIRIT OF THE BOOK. IN ALL MY OTHER FILMS.. IN ALL MY OTHER FILMS.. THE CHARACTERS ARE SEARCHING FOR THEMSELVES... SO THEY'RE NOT REALLY INVITING ANY SORT OF AN IDENTIFICATION ON THE PART OF THE VIEWER YOU DON'T WATCH THE CHARACTERS IN MY OTHER FILM AND THINK I CAN UNDERSTAND OR I CAN RELATE TO THIS PERSON. BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS OFTEN SO EXCESSIVE... SO UNUSUAL.. THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO RELATE BUT IN THIS FILM AND IN THIS COMMUNITY... I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE VERY IDENTIFIABLE. AND I HAD TO RESPECT THAT... I HAD TO MAKE THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTANDABLE TO THE VIEWER.. BECAUSE THE PASSAGE THEY GO THROUGH. THE JOURNEY THEY GO THROUGH IS QUITE EXTRAORDINARY... AND SO IT WASN'T. I HAD TO CHANGE MY FOCUS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING I WAS PREPARED TO DO. I THINK YOU ALWAYS WANT TO SURPRISE YOURSELF... YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE YOURSELF... AND IT'S PART OF ONE'S GROWTH AS AN ARTIST.
pail: WOULD YOU SAY YOUR FIRST FIVE- SIX FILMS WERE A SEARCH FOR IDENTITY FOR YOURSELF.
atom. OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY - THE CHARACTERS IN THOSE FILMS ARE LOOKING FOR WHO THEY ARE - AND THAT'S WHY SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND THEM DIFFICULT FILMS TO WATCH BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT IDENTIFIABLE. YOU JUST CAN'T RELAX WITH THESE PEOPLE. YOU CAN'T JUST FOLLOW THEIR STORY. YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY INVOLVED. YOU HAVE TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOURSELF... AND THEY'RE PAINFUL QUESTIONS. SO THEY'RE CHALLENGING FILMS- THEY CERTAINLY HAVE GIVEN ME A REPUTATION. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT RELATE TO THEM AND ESPECIALLY.... I THINK WITHIN THE COMMUNITY - EVERYONE HAS A FANTASY ABOUT THE TYPES OF FILMS THAT WE WANT SEEN AND I THINK WE ALL HAVE A FANTASY... AS ARMENIANS... THAT ALL IT TAKES TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT THE GENOCIDE AND THAT'LL SOMEHOW CREATE CLOSURE... BUT IT DOESN'T. IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE AND I THINK WE SHOULD STOP FOOLING OURSELVES ABOUT THAT.
paul: BACK TO YOUR CAREER OBVIOUSLY THIS FILM IS MORE MAINSTREAM THAN EXOTICA WAS THIS A NATURAL PROGRESSION FOR YOU FROM ART FILMS TO FILMS WITH MORE APPEAL?
atom IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE BUDGET THE BUDGET OF THIS FILM IS A HIGHER ONE... AND YOU CAN'T MAKE A FILM WITH A HIGHER BUDGET AND THINK THAT... WHEN YOU RAISE MORE MONEY YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO THE PEOPLE WHO1VE GIVEN YOU THAT MONEY. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO REPAY THEM ON THEIR INVESTMENT. SO THE FILM HAS TO BE MORE MAINSTREAM SO THAT IT CAN JUSTIFY ITSELF FINANCIALLY. IT'S A BUSINESS AS WELL. IT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT THING ABOUT FILM MAKING... IT'S NOT JUST AN ART FORM... IT'S ALSO A BUSINESS. IT HAS TO MAKE SENSE AS A BUSINESS.
paul: WHEN YOU READ THE HEADLINES ASKING IF ATOM HAS GONE HOLLYWOOD. HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
atom: I REACT TO THAT BY UNDERSTANDING THE MYTH WE HAVE ABOUT HOLLYWOOD. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND HOLLYWOOD LIKE THE BACK OF MY HAND AFTER EXOTICA. I WAS OFFERED TO DO A FILM WITH WARNER BROTHERS... AND I SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME THERE AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE ADVANTAGES OF THE SYSTEM ARE... BUT ALSO THE DISADVANTAGES. WHEN I MAKE MY FILMS. I HAVE COMPLETE INDEPENDENCE... COMPLETE CONTROL. NOBODY TELLS ME HOW TO MAKE THE FILMS NOBODY TELLS ME WHAT I SHOULD BE DOING AND THE FILMS THAT I MAKE ARE MINE. WHEN YOU MAKE A FILM WITHIN THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO COMPROMISE.
paul: ARE YOU READY TO COMPROMISE WITH ICON PICTURES (mel gibson's production company).
atom: I DON'T THINK I NEED TO COMPROMISE MAYBE I'M FOOLING MYSELF. BUT THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE OFFER IS THEY'RE ALLOWING ME TO DO THE ADAPTATION. I GET TO WRITE IT. I GET TO COMMUNICATE IN THE SCRIPT WHAT I'M GOING TO DO. AND EVEN THERE... I'M GOING TO BE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE. I'M GOING TO SAY... LOOK... IF WE MAKE THE FILM FOR LESS MONEY... CAN I HAVE MORE CONTROL? AND I HOPE THEY'LL BE RESPONSIVE TO THAT THEY'RE GREAT PEOPLE I’VE WORKED WITH THEM BEFORE. AND THEY'RE COMMITTED TO A CERTAIN TYPE OF FILM MAKING... AND I THINK THEY'RE REALISTIC I MEAN... IF YOU MAKE A FILM FOR 30 MILLION DOLLARS... YOU JUST CAN'T DO YOUR OWN THING IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. I THINK YOU'RE BEING VERY IRRESPONSIBLE IF YOU DO THAT IF YOU MAKE A FILM FOR 30 MILLION DOLLARS YOU'LL GET TO HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT MOTIVATES ME. WHAT MOTIVATES ME.. MY MOTIVATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO USE FILM MAKING AS A FORM OF EXPRESSION AND SO I'M JUST AS PROUD OF A FILM LIKE CALENDAR WHICH WE SHOT IN ARMENIA FOR A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS AS I AM WITH THE SWEET HEREAFTER WHICH WE SHOT FOR FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE.. IT'S ALWAYS FOR ME.. I HAVE TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THE TALENT I'VE BEEN GIVEN. AND I CAN'T ABUSE THAT.
paul: WHAT INTERESTED YOU IN FELICIA'S JOURNEY (the film for Icon)
atom. FELICIA'S JOURNEY IS ABOUT TERRITORY AND PEOPLE CROSSING TERRITORY. AND IT'S ALSO AN EXAMINATION OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ENGLAND AND IRELAND IT'S A VERY INTERESTING PSYCHOLOGICAL THRILLER AND I’VE ALWAYS BEEN ATTRACTED TO THE THRILLER FORM. I THINK ONE OF MY FAVORITE FILMS OF ALL TIME IS ROSEMARY'S BABY IF I CAN DO SOMETHING WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT HAS THAT TYPE OF MOOD AND PROVOKES THOSE TYPES OF QUESTIONS.. THEN I'D BE VERY HAPPY.
paul: LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL LIFE IN CALENDAR YOU'VE PERFECTLY EXEMPLIFIED THE THREE MODERN IDENTITIES OF ARMENIANS... THOSE FROM THE HOMELAND.. THE MIDDLE-EASTERN ARMENIAN . AND THE ARMENIANS OF THE WEST... THE AMERICAN-ARMENIANS.
atom: YEAH.
paul: ARSINEE - YOUR WIFE - THE WOMAN YOU CALL YOUR MUSE - IS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. YOU ARE CANADIAN WHEN TWO OF THESE ARMENIAN IDENTITIES CREATE A NEW ARMENIAN - YOUR SON ARSHILLE - WHO WILL THIS FUTURE ARMENIAN TURN OUT TO BE?
atom: THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NO, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THE THING ABOUT CHILDREN IS THAT YOU CANNOT PREDICT.. YOU KNOW. I THINK THE WORSE THING YOU CAN DO TO A CHILD IS TO IMPOSE THINGS ON THEM. PARENTING IS THIS BALANCE BETWEEN HAVING YOUR VALUE SYSTEM WHICH YOU CANNOT HELP BUT HAVE.. BUT ALSO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHARACTER OF THAT CHILD IS ABOUT. SO... HE'S GOING TO ARMENIAN SCHOOL. THAT SEEMS I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG HE'LL BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THAT BECAUSE IT IS FORCED IN OUR CULTURE... IT IS. AND I UNDERSTAND THIS.. MY MOTHER TONGUE IS ARMENIAN BUT I WENT INTO A TOWN IN CANADA WHERE WE WERE THE ONLY ARMENIAN FAMILY. I HAD TO ASSIMILATE. I HAD NO CHOICE. AND IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT OUR CULTURE IS THAT WE HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY OPEN TO ADAPTATION WE HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THAT. WE ARE INHERENTLY PEOPLE WHO HAD HAD TO MAKE CERTAIN ACCOMMODATIONS AND YET PRESERVE VERY FIERCELY THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE MOST VALUABLE TO US. ARSINEE AND I ARE VERY STRONG ARMENIANS AND THAT WILL ENDURE IN ARSHILLE. IN WHAT FORM . I DON'T KNOW I REALLY DON'T. I CAN'T PREDICT THAT. I THINK IT PUTS PRESSURE ON HIM BECAUSE WE ARE PUBLIC PEOPLE. AND I DON'T WANT HIM FEELING THE PRESSURE OF THAT.
paul: THE NAME YOU GAVE HIM... TELL ME WHY YOU NAMED HIM ARSHILLE.
atom ARSHILLE IT'S A HUGE LEGACY. ARSHILLE IS A HUGE LEGACY WE MADE A SHORT FILM ABOUT THAT THAT FILM IS CALLED "A PORTRAIT OF ARSHILLE." AND IT'S . I'M EXPLAINING TO HIM IN ENGLISH WHY WE CHOSE TO GIVE HIM THAT NAME AND ARSINEE IS SAYING IT IN ARMENIAN. IT'S A HAUNTING LITTLE FILM. IT'S FOUR MINUTES LONG WE MADE IT FOR BRITISH BROADCASTING. AND IT'S VERY VERY OPEN. VERY HONEST IT’S ALSO TALKING ABOUT ARSHILLE GORKYS PAITING “A PORTRAIT OF AN ARTIST AND HIS MOTHER." AND IT'S PROBABLY THE MOST COMPLEX LITTLE FOUR MINUTE FILM ANYONE COULD SEE. I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW IT TO YOU
paul WE CAN INCORPORATE IT IN THIS PIECE.. IF YOU'D LIKE.
atom SURE.
paul. OUR FIFTEEN MINUTES ARE UP. ONE FINAL QUESTION. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO YOUNG PEOPLE ... YOUNG ARTISTS WHO'RE TRYING TO FIND THEIR VOICE LIKE YOU FOUND YOURS.
atom: BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR YOU. EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO CREATE THOSE PEOPLE IN YOUR IMAGINATION. YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY NOBODY CAN WORK IN A VACUUM AND IF THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THERE YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE THEM . AND THAT'S THE STRONGEST ADVICE I CAN GIVE BECAUSE IF YOU THINK YOU'RE WRITING.. EXPRESSING THINGS FOR YOURSELF IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SUSTAIN THE ENERGY AND DRIVE BUT IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND YOU'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THOSE PEOPLE AROUND YOU THAT'S GREAT BUT IF YOU'RE NOT.. YOU HAVE TO KEEP IMAGINING THEY ARE BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THEY WILL. EVENTUALLY YOU WILL FIND THOSE PEOPLE. IT MAY TAKE A LOT OF WORK AND A LOT OF PATIENCE.. BUT IF YOUR VOICE IS CLEAR.. AND IF IT'S PASSIONATE THEN THE AUDIENCE WILL BE FOUND.
paul: ATOM... THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME... AND YOUR THOUGHTS.
